Responsibility: (noun) The state, fact, or position of being accountable for something
Does this word sound familiar to you? I doubt it. It seems to me that nobody is willing to take responsibility for his own actions.
Say some guy, i don't know, steals from someone. His parents are shocked. "Our Johnny would never do that! It's not his fault. He got mixed up with a bad crowd."
Notice, however, that the bad crowd didn't rob. Johnny did.
A girl is acting obnoxious. "No, you can't blame her! She had a rough childhood."
OK. Of course, the fact that Johnny was hanging out with the wrong kids, and the girl had a "rough childhood" contribute greatly to the fact that they weren't acting morally. But is that the sole reason?
Someone once asked me, along with a group of people, if we thought the Nazis could be completely blamed for what they did. A you could imagine, this sparked a heated debate.
It is true that, from a young age, German children were told, over and over again, that Hitler's way was the right way. That the Jews, and anyone else who was different, was evil and subhuman and believed to be murdered. It is true that not obeying the Nazi party meant almost certain death.
This is all true. And yet...to say that the Nazis can't be blamed for what they did? I'm not saying that if i was in their situation, i wouldn't have done what they did. It would have been incredibly hard not to. But it would be possible. I have proof of that- there were people who didn't listen to Hitler, who did everything in their power to save innocent lives.
I'm sorry, but anyone who says the Nazis can't be blamed is gravely mistaken. If the Nazis can't be blamed for the Holocaust, who can? Was it all Hitler? As the saying goes, you can't be a king without a country. Hitler couldn't have done anything if nobody went along with him.
So yes, our environment, family, and peers do, to a large extent, affect our actions. But when it comes down to it, we make our own decisions. No one can force us to do anything. We all have free will; we all make our own choices.
Johnny decided to rob a store. He should be held responsible.
The Nazis decided to murder millions of innocent people. They should be held responsible.
Whatever choices you make, you are held responsible for. Don't try to push the blame on anything else or anyone else. After all, that may be what caused the Holocaust in the first place.
Tuesday, December 16, 2008
A Definition
Posted by griffinrider at 8:47 PM
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45 comments:
i totally agree. everyone has a conscience. or a sense of morality. you get a feeling in you that tells them that what they did was wrong. unless-taking your nazi example- a child since a young age was taught that jews where scum then maybe he would not know, but you should have a guilty feeling for treating some so badly.
i agree the nazi did make the choice to follow hitler and was Johnny's choice to steel. yes peers other people, places, music, words ect. make an impact on you choices but deep down you know its wrong and you were taught that that was wrong and blaming other things/ people is not right and you need to take Responsibility for what you did.
~Ruby
You know I completely agree with you, from my comment on last post but I found it interesting to hear that the topic of Nazi's taking responsibity would spark a debate, I guess I never really expected people not to blame them for what they did.
I also see this lack of taking responsibilty in the legal system. People who are accused always say they're temporarily insane, had an abusive childhood, or any other excuse and draw out looooong court presidings and cost tax-payers loads of extra money, just to end up with the same end result, guilty, because they in fact committed the crime, regardless of circumstances.
too true, cruz. what annoys me the most is when people plead insanity. they were insane at the time, but now they're sane enought to not want to go to jail. it's pathetic.
That's the solid truth, however many people don't want to hear it. It's really quite a contradiction when parents say things like that. One minute they say "You should make your own choices and never let anyone tell you what to do!" and the next "It was all their friends fault! They wouldn't have made that choice without hanging around with THOSE people."
sorry, i have a beef with my parents at the moment. :/ not fun so near christmas, but wadda ya do?
yeah. people have a huge impact on the way we think and stuff, but it's still us that do it. they maybe have told us it's cool an'
stuff, but we could've said 'no' and walked away, but we do it and we should amit it. no running away or hiding, right? we should face our responsibilities.
we know we should face our responsabilities. so why don't we?
because humans are cowards (no offense meant, it's directed towards me too). not only to the world around them, but to themselves. people lie to themselves to make them feel better, like they don't have to face it. they put up fancy illusions on how it's not their responsibility anymore, and it gets blamed on others.
of course, this is only my opinion.
yeah, Jin I think fear can motivate people from taking responsibilty
And the courts of today utilize that fear and motivate the wrong-doers to make claims that are patently false.
"I did it because..."
"It wasn't my fault because..."
The history revisionists go to the extreme of saying things like the Holocaust never even occurred, ignoring the physical and photographic evidence to the contrary.
And it still happens here in our country, with the bigotry, and racism, and down right hatred of other races, skin colors, and languages.
Who is to blame?
I know everything I do is my fault. But I really hate it when people have to TELL you that, even when you know it already, right? It's like telling the same story two different ways.
that is annoying, vynn, i agree.
ok, people, so the point is, we all have to learn to take responsability for our actions. we make a mistake, we fix it, right?
Very intelagint.For a 16 year old you seam to take a intristing veiw of life
As an extremely open-minded person, or maybe you can call it naivete', I take in both sides of evil and good without a fight... Every single person does have a consiense, yes...Johnny did steal on his own, but things like this and the Nazis are triggered by persistence and greed, and other things...Nobody steals or does something out of no good reason whatsoever, something, somethings, or maybe even somebody drove them to it.
I'm not trying to open a debate, actually...I'm just voicing my opinion but I understand if someone wants to counteract with it and/or oppose it.
I Agree
uh...thanks, gandalf. that was a compliment, right? maybe?
anywho, dibsy, of course johnny had a motive for stealing. of course the nazis had a motive for murdering millions. that makes it excusable? is that what you're saying? if someone convinced me to kill a baby in order to make some money, and i do it, it's right? is that seriously what you're saying? as that makes very little sense, i'm assuming that that is not what you meant, and that i simply misunderstood. can you please explain yourself a bit more clearly?
ok.
of course i didn't mean that. i believe in karma. but that might be missing the point the way i said it, however.
i see no one as evil, i don't discriminate gays or people not my skin color or men or anyone that has ever raped or ever murdered in everyone. i believe nobody really knows everybody, as there are 2 parts of a story, the person's and the people around them. Should you discriminate someone because they raped or killed someone in their past time? Even if they're still as mean or sour as they were before? Once again, I might just be a naivete, if I think you're right then I won't argue back, I'm just trying to share my opinion.
OF COURSE it's wrong to steal and lie and kill. BUT stealing and killing millions of people are total different things that shouldn't be compared. I see the difference, although, about the responsibility thing. I think we've agreed with each other a bit more now, or at least I hope.
I apologize, I think the karma thing was a bit thrown in there...sorry.
let me tell you something.
Last weekend, we went to Denver to Christmas shop and hang out with dad, since we're not celebrating this year and dad wont be with us. My dad got me a new iPod and gave me $200. He gave my sister $300. We could buy anything we wanted. Well, at Best Buy, the klutz I am, I dropped one of my hundred dollar bills, even though I thought I put it safely back in my pocket. I panicked the next morning, realizing I had dropped it. We searched all over our suites, but we couldn't find the hundred.
For half the day, I sulked and tried to keep back tears. I knew, this was MY FAULT. MY RESPONSIBILITY. Rest assured, we went to the Best Buy to see if anyone turned it in. LUCK FOR ME! They said yes and I had $100 again. (You know, it really felt like the world was lifted off of my shoulders!).
It was my responsibility to keep that money. It was my responsibility to get it back. And I'm really glad a responsible person picked it up after I dropped it.
It also makes me feel better about the people in the world (sort of).
wow Dibsy we have different views on this... first no one's saying anything about predjudice (skin color or gays)... Second, I can see people as evil... I have a private blog where some of my friends know my mom was stabbed to death - 27 times- and I see the man that did it as PURE EVIL no matter his childhood, his circumstances, or anything else in his life... it was just a random act of violence from a robbery gone very wrong... and I've spent the past two years in and out court procedeings because him and his lawyers have thrown EVERY stall tactic imaginable to avoid taking responsibility.... I respect your opinion Dibs and you're one of my fave friends on blogger, but I think this on e topic I'm not budging even a little... I CAN judge people on their past actions regardless of their side of the story, responsibility...it's either you did it or you didn't and you're willingness to own up to your actions
*hugs to Dibsy* cuz I still lub u!
*waves at Gandalf* hiiiii!
and Vynn that's so awesome someone returned it! things like that restores my faith in people...
can't an action sometimes be seen as evil, but the one who did it still be at least a little bit good? Sentient beings are a mix of both. they have the ability to choose. if someone makes a wrong choice that's bad, and they should accept responsibility but it's not the sole definer of who they are.
Ok now I'm going to diagree with you there Agent Dibsy.First I dont belive in karma and I think,like Cruz, there are alot of pepole that were and are evil.And pepole that rape or kill that are as sour as they were before sould suffer and/or be trone in a hole so dark that they never see the light of day.
Gandalf
P.S
I just have a diffrint view then you.I hope I sitll your firend
(hugs everyone) I agree, I'm sorry for being so narrow-minded there.
But, for instance, you stole a cookie from your friend in kindergarten. Ever since then she never forgot, and she has been mean to you ever since. Two wrongs don't make a right, if you stole it's your fault yes, but if people stil discriminate you like this maybe still in 8th Grade don't you think that's unfair?
If a man killed maybe twenty two years ago, he would obviously be trying to restart his life and try to forget. If you met him, and refused to accept him, then what? He won't be happy? You won't be happy. And then nobody is happy.
I don't know, but I just think people should get a second chance here.
people should get a second chance, but what if they killed someone? what they did was so horrible and there's a chance they'll do it again. even if you do think they deserve a second chance should they get one? don't the rest of us deserve to feel safe and protected from those who would hurt us?
wow, heated discussion going on here!
people make mistakes. that's a fact of life. the point i'm trying to make here is that if you do make a mistake, you should take responsability for your actions. so guess what? if you, i dunno, robbed someone, it is YOUR FAULT. you are responsible for your actions.
dibsy, i don't even know why you're even talking about discrimination here. if someone tries to kill me, and i call his actions bad, does that make me prejudiced? i still don't understand what you're saying. if someone did something very bad, and isn't chaning, then of course he is considered a bad person. that's the DEFINITION of a bad person- a person who does bad things. and yes, dibsy, there is such a thing as bad people.
ever heard of a terrorist? did you see the pictures in the paper a few weeks ago, all those people murdered in india? did you notice that bombs have been falling almost daily on a city in israel for years? (the city is called Sderot , by the way.) did you ever hear about the two towers that went crashing to the ground in manhattan?
the people who did these things are the scum of the earth. they think they're doing the right thing. they think they're going to heaven and getting 72 virgins. that doesn't change the fact that the action was totally, undeniably
WRONG. it is WRONG to kill innocent people, no matter what. these people's morals are messed up. can i blame them? of course i can! They should know the difference between right and wrong. they are responisible for what they did. the grandfather of a man who was murdered in india lives in my neighborhood. this tragedy affects me personally. what, it's "not their fault" because they think they're getting 72 virgins for shooting innocent people?
i don't think so.
I agree once more :) but if they dont regret the mistakes then they sould not be forgiven.If they regret then yes they sould by forgiven.O the note of murder if the person made a mistakes and whants to be forgiveing the person sould be forgiveing...after he severs 30+ years in jail.
Agreed Gandalf. ;P
I'm not that naive...I'm not full of sunshine and roses, I know what goes on in the real world.
(i might be getting off-topic now...) But if a thief has a son, and is still a thief, then the son will probably become a thief, too, right? Every bad person is a good guy in his imagination, and the good people are the bad guys in his imagination. And so in his mind he thinks he's justified, even though in reality he's not. He keeps on thinking he's the misunderstood hero, but everyon sees him for who he really is, or isn't.
Terrorists are bad people to you, but to them they're not that bad...even if they ARE bad.
This debate is getting heated... (-.- i'm not good at these...)
Wait what? 72 virgins? Huh? (Where'd you read that?? What were they planning on doing?? Oh, my naivete is showing again)
oh, sorry i didn't explain that. ok, so the islamic suicide bombers believe that when they die, they will go straight to heaven, and their idea of heaven is 72 virgins at their disposal. got it?
btw, just because a man is a theif, that doesn't mean that his son will be a theif.
if someone does something immoral, even if he thinks it's right, the fact is that it is NOT right. the action was wrong, and he must be blamed for it. it is his fault that his morals are messed up. you can't say, "Oh, i thought that murdering babies was the right thing to do, so it's not my problem."
OHHHH... (-.- hey griffin, why were women so discriminated like this so long ago? just a random question)
I didn't mean it like that. But if a man is a thief and has a son, and this man continues to be a thief, and even though it is no 100% guarentee that they will turn out to be thieves, it's just ummm... (Well, that was actually a quote from a book. -.- I guess I got the wording wrong, it give the metaphor a whole new meaning) Well yeah.
I know it's wrong even though they think it's right, thats what I said. I think. (----.----)
I'm confused as well ;0...:)
I stand by the belief that ignorance should not be punished.
A young boy, maybe thirteen, is staying with his uncles and cousins at a hunting cabin. When the uncles take him hunting, they forget that he hasn't been taught all the safety precautions and rules. Due to him not knowing these things, he ends up shooting and killing his cousin. Do you think this boy deserves the punishment for murder? Do you think his family members do, who assumed he knew the things they never taught him?
i agree, sorta...(that was a better example than what i said)
And Because...so what exactly is your stance on the Nazi's and the Holocaust? because they didn't know any better than what they were taught to believe and do what was expected of them, they're not responsible for their actions of murder because no one ever taught them anything different. I wouldn't agree.
and as for your example, there wouldn't be punishment legally because it was an accident, BUT that kid would definately feel responsible because he took someone's life, he would feel the guilt and trauma from it... so he may not face legal charges because accidents happen, and even if everyone told him it wasn't his fault, I bet he would still feel responsible, which is sad, but true.
and as far as the second chances and remorse and redemption talk... our legal system is set up to give second chances with probation and parole, but that doesn't mean people think that way. I know the pc thing would be to say if someone showed remorse they're forgiven... if that's true then why do sex offenders have to be registered even after parole and after their probation, BECAUSE of their history... and would anyone really feel comfortable becoming friends with a man/woman that has committed a violent crime such as murder? the right thing to say is I wouldn't judge, but the truth is I would judge them on their past, whether they say it was a mistake or not, whether they say they've changed their ways or not, I just wouldn't be comfortable with them, because I've seen it firsthand.
*hugs all around* Cruz
people have to be blamed for their actions. i think everyone has an inbron sense of morality that develops as we get older. i mean, if a 2-year-old hurts someone, he can't be held responsible because he really doesn't know any better. but if a grown man murders million of innocent people, i'm sorry, but it's his fault. he thinks he's justified, but he's not. the fact that he thinks that it's the right thing to do is an evil thing. i know you find it hard to believe, dibsy, but people can be blamed for evil thoughts and intentions in addition to evil actions. and thinking that an entire nation deserves to die just because they are different is evil.
of course most of the nazis thought they were doing the right thing! everyone who murders like that thinks he's doing the right thing- otherwise he wouldn't do it. the fact is, his morals are wrong, his thinking is wrong, and so of course his actions are wrong. and he should take responsability for it.
I think what dibsy's trying to say is that children usually believe their parents are the greatest people in the world and if someone's dad is a thief, or even teaches them that something is right, the kid will adopt this belief because it's what they grew up with. (is that right?) if a child who doesn't know how to operate a gun isn't held responsible for accidentally killing someone, why should someone who honestly believes what they were doing is right because that's what they were taught from childhood be? Yes, they should be taught otherwise and if they refuse to accept it, they are responsible but what if they truly don't know any better? we accept the reality which we are given.
That's sort of what I meant. If you were daughter of a murderer, and he told you that to murder was the right thing, then you would grow up believing that murdering is a right thing. imagine hearing a debate like this your whole life, of course to a point you will be convinced. if he teaches you that people who don't do what you want are bad, and that murdering is the answer, and the daughter never believed anyone else, and she is suddenly very old and still believes, then what will happen to her? age doesn't matter, it's your beliefs? are you saying that once you grow older you should suddenly know what's wrong and what's right, but if you are young then there is no one to blame? what if you knew no better but was old?
dibsy, are you saying that the nazis can't be blamed for the holocaust? look, i'm not saying that it isn't hard to realize that what other people tell you is wrong, but it is possible. sooner or later, we have to grow up and start thinking for ourselves.
my parents have taught me a whole lot of things that i believed were right at first. i still love my parents deeply, but now i realize that a lot of the things they taught me were wrong.
growing older means learning to take responsability for your actions. it means thinking for yourself, making consious decisions, not just following the crowd. it's hard to do what's right when everyone else is doing something els,e but it is possible. i have proof of that- there were quite a few gentiles in nazi germany who did not think that hitler was right, who risked their lives to save jews.
just because your parents tell you that something is right, it doesn't mean it is. and just because you think something is right because other people said so, taht doesn't mean it is. if a little child listens to his father who tells him to steal, he can't be blamed for that because he is too young to really make important decisions on his own. but if he's still stealing when he's a grown man, i'm sorry, but it is his fault. of course, some of the blame goes to his father, but that fact is that this man should be thinking for himslef, should be deciding whether or not his father's ways are moral.
do you understand what i'm saying here? people have free choice. you can always choose to do the right think, regardless of what everyone else is doing.
I don't know how much of it is learning to think for ourselves and how much is just finding a different person to follow. if you're truly the only one doing something 99% odds you'll stop doing it. if you know someone else is doing it, even if it's somewhere far away or a long time ago, it can give you the strength to continue, but what if someone grows up thinking the whole world is like that. it takes guts to be different. even then the 'different' ones almost always have someone helping them.
it does take guts to be different. but it is possible.
If there weren't people in the world that had the guts to be different and to go against what everyone else said and what they were taught then we would still have slavery, women wouldn't have the right to vote, and countless other things. We have many of our rights in this country BECAUSE people dared to have a different way of thinking than what they were always taught... I think as you get older you start to see things in your own perspective and decide what's right or wrong for yourself... religious views, political preference, and especially morals
but humans are social creatures. we almost always need to know we're not alone.
Okaaaay...I think we've been debating about fact and philosophy for a while now, and as philosophy has no right answer at all we might as well just argue forever. Here is what I've been trying to say:
People are responsible for their actions, but they still have been triggered by persistence and other things, so it is not entirely their fault, but most of it is.
that's why philosophy is so fun to debate. you just try as hard as you can to convince someone but it's almost impossible to prove finally. you can both feel right and just have fun debating forever. (sorry, i seriously love debate. that's why my honors geog class was one of my favs. plus I can't usually do it with my friends. they always think I'm mad at them and start crying. (yes, jin. I'm talking about you. no I'm not annoyed, before you ask and start getting all paranoid.))
true, true true. v.v
it's been a while since there's been a debate on this blog. i'm glad it started up again, cuz things were starting to get a little boring.
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